The Democratic Alliance’s Ian Cameron, a member of the Ad Hoc Committee investigating allegations made by SAPS KwaZulu-Natal provincial commissioner, Lieutenant General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi, said that the party is seeking legal counsel after the claims made against fellow MP, Diane Kohler Barnard.

Cameron was speaking on the sidelines of the inquiry probing the allegations Mkhwanazi made of police corruption and interference.

Cameron said that Mkhwanazi has made a lot of allegations, and that for some, they have yet to see physical evidence, “but he seems very, very sure of the allegations made, and I think a lot more will likely be presented”.

“A lot more has been shared on top of what we heard at the Madlanga Commission, so it clearly shows that the parliamentary platform is extremely useful in this case, and that all of the MPs who are asking questions are bringing unique questions to the table, and (it allows) more time to ventilate specific issues,” Cameron said.

“Obviously, it’s very worrying. It tells us that these aren’t issues that were raised over a space of, you know, two or three months. These are issues that have been coming for two decades, and the amount of political influence in policing, we always knew it was an issue; I don’t think anyone knew how deeply it really was rooted.”

Cameron also tackled the issue of Kohler Barnard where he said that he could not speak on her behalf, and he stressed how “it’s important that, as in any process, they’re innocent until proven guilty”.

Kohler Barnard attended the session virtually after the provincial commissioner accused her of disclosing classified intelligence information at both the parliamentary inquiry and the Madlanga Commission, an allegation she has denied.

“It’s important that someone gets a fair opportunity… To us, it’s important that we also protect the process. If we can just, you know, have a kangaroo court style, find someone guilty, chase them out, I don’t think that is the type of constitutional democracy that we would like to see, so we need to behave as such.

“Apart from that, we have sought legal counsel, and we’ll get the relevant feedback, and then the party will guide us on what the decision is,” Cameron said.

Cameron, who is also the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police, denied that the perception was created of Parliament not acting when the issues were first raised in March. 

“I know there was a Major-General (Petronella) van Rooyen, for example, who testified before the Madlanga Commission, which really created an impression that all of the allegations that were made in the July press conference by General Mkhwanazi were mentioned to the police committee. It’s simply not true.

“It is wrong, it’s not true. So it was important to give that context. It was also important to indicate, and General Mkhwanazi said today that he couldn’t fault the committee on 90% of their conduct on the day. 

“Now there’s a big difference between 90% and the committee not doing their work. I asked him why he didn’t mention things regarding Vusimuzi ‘Cat’ Matlala, that was mentioned during his later press briefing, so the misperception that the committee didn’t do work needs to be clarified,” Cameron said.

“We may differ on small technicalities, but it was important for me to also show that the police committee does work very hard and that a large number of the members on this ad hoc committee were there on the day.

“Lastly, it’s important to also say that remember on the day of the 5th of March, the Minister of Police, Senzo Mchunu, as well as General Mkhwanazi, Lieutenant General Dumisani Khumalo (who is the Divisional Commissioner in the Crime Intelligence of the South African Police Service), General Masemola, the deputy ministers and basically the whole SAPS management were present.

“No one disputed the presentation about phasing out of the Political Killing Task Team (PKTT), so the perception that was created that there was this exposé about the PKTT, amongst other things, being closed down and that there are problems, is not true. No one objected to it. The only thing, and that’s something that is being investigated now, is the matter regarding Brown Mogotsi.

“At that stage, the minister clearly said he didn’t know him, and later on, a colleague of mine, Lisa-Maré Schickerling, also an MP and a member of the ad hoc committee, laid criminal charges against Minister Mchunu for misleading parliament on that day. 

“More than that, at that stage, I don’t think we could have done,” Cameron said.

Cameron explained that a lot of points Mkhwanazi’s testimony raised regarding legislation and possible legislative amendments were critical. 

“An example that some might not take that seriously is access to, for example, phones – someone literally opening a phone and sharing messages at the instruction of the police. That is a slippery slope. We need to make sure the right checks and balances are in place, but we also need to make sure that the good cops are empowered to be able to do their work. 

“Other parts, for example, vetting processes, the way people are vetted, the way people are promoted, or even sent on pension. We questioned, regarding Richard Mluli, the fact that he was able to retain his rank despite his previous transgressions, and he was allowed to retire. You know, why did the then National Commissioner General (Khehla) Sithole sign that off? And those are the types of things that will be looked at. 

“Remember also in context, within the next few months, we’ll see the SAPS Amendment Bill appearing before the committee, which will give us an opportunity to dive deep on all of these issues,” Cameron said.

theolin.tembo@inl.co.za

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