Suspended Police Minister Senzo Mchunu on Friday revealed that he had advised his chief of staff, Cedrick Nkabinde, to record conversations with KwaZulu-Natal Police Commissioner Lieutenant-General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi.

This after Mchunu claimed he received alarming threats from Mkhwanazi, who warned of a potential “fight back” if he did not retract his controversial directive from December 2024 to disband the Political Killings Task Team (PKTT).

“It is me who advised the chief of staff that you may need to record the conversation with General Mkhwanazi because of the threats … He (Nkabinde) kept saying General Mkhwanazi is angry. When a person says so-and-so is angry with you, you take it seriously,” he said.

Mchunu was appearing at the parliamentary inquiry probing the allegations made by Mkhwanazi at the explosive media briefing on July 6, where he accused him of political interference in police operations.

He was being quizzed about a WhatsApp message Mkhwanazi sent him in April requesting a meeting with SAPS top brass and businessman and ANC activist Brown Mogotsi, who, in a WhatsApp message, told attempted murder accused, tenderpreneur Vusimuzi “Cat” Matlala, that the PKTT was to be disbanded and its dockets would be sent to Deputy National Police Commissioner Shadrack Sibiya.

Mkhwanazi sent the message after attempting to reach Mchunu through Nkabinde and requested National Commissioner Fannie Masemola to arrange a meeting to address internal issues within SAPS that affected him and his family and could destabilise crime-fighting efforts.

Although Mchunu had acknowledged receipt of the message, he failed to arrange a meeting.

Mkhwanazi previously told the inquiry that he sent the message in an attempt to get Mchunu’s attention, and that conversations with Nkabinde were recorded and then leaked.

“He (Nkabinde) said to me his phone was tapped or someone was listening to our conversations and he did not share the conversation with anyone,” Mkhwanazi said, adding that he learnt that Nkabinde had been instructed to record their call.

During his testimony on Friday, Mchunu said he could not have called the meeting to discuss SAPS matters with Mogotsi, who was not part of the police.

He had thought of meeting Mkhwanazi to establish the aspects of work he mentioned as affecting him and his family before calling a meeting with police generals that excluded Mogotsi.

The April message came when a lot of other things had happened, including the Police Portfolio Committee meeting in March, he said.

According to Mchunu, Nkabinde told him that Mkhwanazi threatened that if he was clean, he could go ahead to disband the PKTT and that there would be a “fight back”.

“To me that was a threat, and it was also a promise that somebody is going to go back to look at what I did wrong while I was an MEC, premier, and minister. I have no problem, people can start from the day when I was the MEC,” he said.

“I don’t think people should take it for granted that wrong things I did during those periods constitute unlawfulness during those periods.”

It was at this point that Mchunu asked that the recording between Nkabinde and Mkhwanazi be played as part of his evidence to the inquiry.

In his evidence, Mkhwanazi had said he still needed to establish the relationship between Mchunu and Nkabinde.

He testified that Nkabinde had told him that he and former IPID head Robert McBride had met Mchunu at his residence in eMpangeni to tell him about a criminal investigation they were busy with at the watchdog body.

“It would appear that at the time, the minister might have been implicated in that case, but the two of them somehow have a working arrangement with the minister.”

According to Mkhwanazi, apparently, there was a complaint of police involvement, and Mchunu had done wrong to a degree, but he was never arrested in the incident involving bodyguards.

Chief evidence leader Advocate Norman Arendse, SC, asked Mchunu whether he knew Nkabinde recorded the conversation with Mkhwanazi and if his office recorded conversations with people without their knowledge.

In his response, Mchunu said they did not record people, and he was unaware of a person being recorded except Mkhwanazi.

He claimed that Mkhwanazi had for days been enquiring about his request for a meeting with him when he allegedly made the threats.

“I said you (Nkabinde) may need to consider recording because I don’t normally have discussion with a person and you get threats in your work environment,” he said.

After the part Mchunu said referred to the fight back in the recording could not be found, the inquiry directed that it be found and played when Mchunu takes the stand on Tuesday.

EFF leader Julius Malema urged Mchunu’s legal team to help cut the part Mchunu claim contains the threat allegedly made by Mkhwanazi.

“We need to hear that. It is very important,” Malema said.

mayibongwe.maqhina@inl.co.za

Source link